WMRRA and OMRRA rules for tail section # plates?

[beer gut racing]

I was reading the WMRRA minutes and the rule change for one set of numbers on the tail section oriented opposite the front FAILED. Did OMRRA pass this measure for 2008? If so, that's gonna suck.

[LauraLynne]

You read it right - OMRRA says 1, WMRRA says 2

[piper907]

wierd... :40:

[Hypnotiq]

Yup Danny, it did not pass @ WMRRA. Sorry dude. :(

[sanfret]

for ONCE omrra is head of others

[Ed Who?]

WHY THE FUCK DID IT NOT PASS? HOw is it LEGAL IN EVERY SINGLE CLUB in america BUT wmrra? HONESTLY?? SOMEONE fucking help me understand this...the visabiliy of a set of say 8-10" single numbers on top is 2000 times easier to read than when you have to shrink down numbers to 4" and squeeze on the side....jesus...SOMEONE tell me why and what was the voting turnout on it and also how/what was the wording for the change up there.

[beer gut racing]

WHY THE FUCK DID IT NOT PASS? HOw is it LEGAL IN EVERY SINGLE CLUB in america BUT wmrra? HONESTLY?? SOMEONE fucking help me understand this...the visabiliy of a set of say 8-10" single numbers on top is 2000 times easier to read than when you have to shrink down numbers to 4" and squeeze on the side....jesus...SOMEONE tell me why and what was the voting turnout on it and also how/what was the wording for the change up there.

I'm frustrated too bud, but it is what it is. Don't get too worked up, I don't want your blood pressure any higher than it is!...take it easy brother :)

[Hypnotiq]

Copy/Paste of my answer on the WMRRA forum. Don't shoot the messenger. :p

#1 - General Membership doesn't vote on rules. WMRRA does it by the RC looking at the proposals, taking any feedback they've solicited/received and voting on it accordingly.

#2 - Page 3/4 has the proposal. http://www.wmrra.com/minutes/2007/11_2007_rc.pdf
Unanimously failed. IIRC, start/finish had a problem with not having the numbers on the side of the bike so that they were visible and there is nothing to say the #'s can't be on the fairings (though, I know not as aesthically pleasing).

HTH.
Nico

[Hypnotiq]

http://www.eternaltides.com/emoticons/nanana.gif

Eric!

http://www.eternaltides.com/emoticons/redflip.gif

[Ed Who?]

Nico..so why did you vote it down??

[Hypnotiq]

To piss you off. http://www.eternaltides.com/emoticons/redflip.gif

[Ed Who?]

Nico...good news i just saved 15% on my insurance by switching to Gieco and your motor just got bumped to the back of the line!

:nowwhoselaughing

[Hypnotiq]

:cry:

[Ed Who?]

even BELLYS SV motor got bumped UP in front of yours today!


OUCH>...

[Hypnotiq]

Belly is too fat for an SV. :)

Guess, I should plan on racing in 2009 instead. :(

[Justin Watkins]

WTF!!!!

Start/Finish couldn't read the #'s? You have ELECTRONIC scoring for fuck sakes, if there is a dispute, then electronic scoring is final, if you electronic scoring sucks then thats what riders have to deal with until they man up and help the club buy AMB timing which is much more accurate and deal withe the track to find a way to install a loop. Besides, you can see the riders coming at the S/F, most of the time its rarely a close finish and even then its 1-2 bikes and you can see them coming, note the numbers and determine who passed who at the line.

WMRRA Scoring = LAME!!

Oh and last time I rode there was the E-Race which was a cluster fuck as well. How can you determine who won the race when they never started the race to begin with ???? :thinking

:77:

[Studio819]

ok, I have been reading both threads and neither of them make me see the WMRRA Staff's point. Lizbeth even commented on where they would see numbers in the corner worker stations, but I gotta say, I am in those locations and many of her "sightings" I personally think are wrong. Honestly, with regard to corner workers, if bike goes down it is not until they get to the bike that they can ID it and shout back to the radio person to call in the number. either that, or they ask me (and that is more then 50% of the time).

The fact that it is hard for scoring to see the number I personally have to call BS. They are in a trailer about 50 yards back from the track and can't see the numbers at all, they can only see the top half of the rider zooming by on top of the white wall in the front straight.

Start/finish sees the bikes coming out of the kink and head on at them so they see the front number plate.
T2 really cannot see much of anything due to the back of the bike facing them as they go into the turn and their location, however if they do see anything it will be head on as they exit T1 and the TOP of the bike as they pass by because they are up on a little hill above the riders
T2b sees the riders head on
T3 sees the riders head on and then the top of the bike as they go through T3 since they are above them
T4 only sees the head on as the bike is leaned away from them in the turn
T5 sees only the head on as it is too fast of a turn to see much else
T6 is viewed by T7 and a head on
T7 again like T4 the rider is leaned opposite the corner
T8 is head on up the hill from 7 and above the rider like T2
T9 is head on, but is probably the only turn that the 2 sets of numbers apply as they are on the inside of the turn, level with the rider and the bike is leaned toward the corner workers.

Hey, it's only my 2 cents, but I spend more time at that track then anyone. We know the majority of the time who is who due to the bike/leather color scheme. We see the front plate in almost every turn like I showed above. And we have transponders on the bikes associated with the rider/number of the bike. As an enthusiast, I would be pissed to find out someone got DQ'd due to their numbers not being the proper size (a stretch to be sure, but a possibility, especially on a money weekend/close race/someone being sleazy and contesting it). The R1/R6 simply does not have the space to support 2 sets of big numbers on the tail, or if it does, it looks bad (and yes, to someone like me, that is important...I gotta figure it is also to people that are looking for photos to purchase that they don't have a gummed up black slur of numbers on their tail section).

[beer gut racing]

+10000000000000!

[Hypnotiq]

I spoke as to why I voted. Brandon it was start/finish that had an objection as well. In the interest of not making the race day staffs job any harder for what is purely an aesthetic reason (it is!!), I voted against it. As did every other, real racing member of the board.

The problem is too many members don't get involved and give their rider reps feedback, show up to general membership meetings and speak, or participate in the forums until way after the fact. Despite the constant reminders given to them, they just don't do it.

So all you people that are outraged and dismayed about this utter travesty. Put in a rule change proposal when they open again, talk to your rider reps or post it on the forums or show up to a general membership meeting when the rules for 2009 open and get things changed.

And Justin, all clubs have bad days. I could go on and on about the clusterfuck that happened the following OMRRA weekend (E-race weekend) where the airfence was not setup on time when it was supposed to and ended up in a delay during the mornings activities.

The OMRRA race day had a bad day just like the WMRRA one did. In the end, they both work hard to put on a good race day. Enough said.

[piper907]

hmmm... what is going to be easier to see (and READ) by a spectator, cornerworker, scoring official??? tiny numbers smashed onto a cheesewedge tail section OR BIG ASS numbers across the top???
It is interesting to me that the whole question seems to be...
"which is easier to see? top number plates, or side number plates"
The answer is... NEITHER if the numbers are soo fucking small and smashed together that you can't read them in the pits!!!

When did WMRRA ever TRY using a top number plate to see if it worked better or worse or even mase any difference?
I can understand listening to someones problems based on experience and making rule changes accordingly, but not keeping up with the times because "we MIGHT have a problem" ???
none of the other race orgs. seem to have an issue with it, so maybe we should try it out for a season???
or maybe we can try to be the most outdated race org. in the country???
(I don't think they give any awards for that)

[Studio819]

The problem is too many members don't get involved

And there is the reality. Not knocking you Nico, I just don't really see the sense. The computers/transponders should work faster then S/F to say who is winning/won. If anything it could/should be optional *shrug*

I was just putting my 2 cents in on the topic, I know that much of the issue stems from lack of participation in the meetings. I do have to question the need though for S/F needing to see side numbers. Take the below into consideration and remember, this is just my opinion.

S/F is not the say so on who won a race
S/F couldn't be the final word on who won a close race
Coming out of the kink, S/F is looking at those front number plates for quite some time
When a bike passes S/F they are doing upwards of 150mph, stand on the wall some time and watch them come by and try to keep up with the numbers as they zoom by...trust me, you are remembering what you saw head on, not spinning your head like a tennis match on crack tracking the bikes for details.

While some of it is asthetics, I can't say all of it is. Cramming a 3 digital round number (not something like 111) on an R1/R6 tail section (lets say 936) is not easy and definately not clear and a 150mph blow by is not going to be really that legible, especially since the R1/R6 is more flat across the top then rounded all the way around. Perhaps Eric has some photos of the side of an R1/R6 tail section to show that, but the tail section is more boxy so the numbers will lay flat across the tail section in 2 rows instead of arcing upwards like GSXR tail section.

Again, not looking to instigate anything here so no need to feel you need to defend your choice. Just stating the obvious.

[Hypnotiq]

Nowhere does it say that the # plate has to be on the tail section. It can be on the fairing or you can do what the vintage guys do. ;)

[Studio819]

When did WMRRA ever TRY using a top number plate to see if it worked better or worse or even mase any difference?

Last year it was a non-issue. Lash I believe did it as well as Brian Tredeau.

[Hypnotiq]

or maybe we can try to be the most outdated race org. in the country???

WERA doesnt allow it.

Keep swinging baby, keep swinging.

[Studio819]

example from last week's WERA:
http://studio819.smugmug.com/gallery/4183044#244447804
http://studio819.smugmug.com/gallery/4184570#244603183

is that really legible...is it going to remain that clear at 150mph with a pack of bikes coming through the area?

This is what S/F would see coming at them out of the kink:
http://studio819.smugmug.com/gallery/4183044#244443649

My point ultimately is moot as it has been voted down, but being a visual person

[Hypnotiq]

But its great stuff to have to lobby for it in 09. :)

[Studio819]

true. I do think I just maybe (JUST maybe) have a few pics from Pacific to show what the corner workers see from each station. Just maybe :)

[piper907]

How does ANYONE know if it will work or not if we haven't even tried it???
Last year, Lash had top numbers for 1 race (after an AMA event)... until he was told to take them off.

[acy179]

I'm with Brandon and Corson. But Nico already knows that! :666:

[Ed Who?]

its SILLY! So simple. We ran it for TWO race weekends without issue..then the ponytailed fag piped up and almost got a coors light mug aside his face!