Brake pads, who's the best??

[Barry Wressell]

I wanted to get some feedback on what brake pads you think are the best and why? I have always used Performance Friction until 2005 I switched to Vesrah. I will be going back to PF, I just love how they trail brake. They don't have much intial bite, but are real progressive and they last a long time too. I think retail they are around a $100 a set. I tried EBC, too much bite, Vesrah was right in the middle, I thought they were really good pads but really expensive.

[Hypnotiq]

I used SBS all of last year and loved them. After people ranting and raving about the Vesrah's, I figured I'd try a set and decide if I like them over my SBS. I had the EBC Kit pads and absolutely hated them.

[Barry Wressell]

Did you run the SBS Dual Carbon or the Sintered pads? I want to try the Dual Carbon, supposed to be like the Performance Friction, but they are only $75 for a set. Alan Schmidt swears they are awesome.

[Justin Watkins]

I run the dual carbon SBS pads on my Kawi and love them. I ran them on my GSXR's a few years ago as well and I think they are the best pad I have ever used, very affordable and last a long time. Prior to that I ran the ferodo pads, I liked them as well but they put off a LOT of brake dust and wear fairly fast. Not as progressive as SBS but have a comfortable bite and good feeling for the most part.

[Hypnotiq]

Barry, I ran the DC's. I loved how they had a nice initial bite (not too hard) and were progressive.

[Ed Who?]

Personally...


PF pads: Nice pad, easy on rotor. not priced badly, but they DO NOT LAST! I know a ton of racers that went thru a set a weekend, and some faster! So when you figure in life, they are spendy actually.

SBS: I hear good and bad. Several guys tried the Dual Carbon and said they were good, but had NO where near the grip of the vesrah SRJL's. Again, these are from all ppl.

Vesrah: honestly hard to beat. they grip like mad, last FOREVER (which makes $$ not bad!) and we have sold over 500 of them and had 1 set ever returned. The RJL is impossible to beat for a under $40 pad that a lot of novices and trackday guys use as well as the sv guys!

Carbon Loraine: We are going to be testing the new pads C-44. We have been hearing amazing things about them..i know most top WERA guys and several AMA privateers run them. The distributor has provided us a ton of info and we really cant wait to try them.

Pads are a personal choice. While Belly likes the PF and goes good on them, i know others (they can speak up if they want) that are top3 racers and hated them! so..its a personal choice. I had nothing against the PF's except for there life span was way too short. If you are using say 6 sets of pads a year at PF's $100/pair thats $600. Now, say your able to go with only 3 sets(i think bluth even only used 3-4 sets with ALL his racing in 2007) of Vesrahs SRJL for $160/pair thats $480..so they are cheaper. I REALLY hate when ppl look at the INITIAL cost on stuff...like pads, tires, leathers, helmets, motors, etc.

:82::82:

[Hypnotiq]

I REALLY hate when ppl look at the INITIAL cost on stuff...like pads, tires, leathers, helmets, motors, hookers, etc.


Fixed your typo. :)

[dpwracing]

I really like the Vesrah's, they are expensive but they also do last a long time. Good bite, good progression and control. I probably only use a set about every 3 weekends or so (with a track day or 2 thrown in as well)

I used the PF's for a while and liked them, but for me they just don't seem as powerful as Vesrah's and don't have the same initial bite. One nice thing is I think they maybe don't generate as much heat as I don't recall experiencing fade with them.

I've tried EBC's over the years and have never liked them, inconsistent and also had some problems with them dragging.

I'll also throw in that the stock suzuki ones are pretty good! Not quite as much bite as Vesrah's, but last a long time and pretty good control. I definitely wouldn't throw away the stock pads on a new Suzuki.

[acy179]

Barry,

You really need to get yourself a Maxi-Pad that doesn't leak as much as the ones you were using last year. I hear you won't need to replace them as often either.

Don't know much about how they feel cause I have no need for them.

Seriuosly,

I like the SRJLs myself but only ran EBCs. The EBCs have a great bite but the Vesrahs do last a bit longer and wear nicer. Haven't run any of the others.

Anybody know if the type of rotor makes that big of a difference? What pad and rotor combo do you suggest and why? I ran EBCs and Brembo rotors on my Kawi and loved the fact that I could break really late into T3 at Pacific using only two fingers. Same for T2

[beer gut racing]

Don't forget to check your rotor thickness. The most basic metric of performance for a brake system is mass of the rotor. Mass = heat dissipation. If your rotors are worn, replace them!!! Also, it's important to remove the old brake pad material which was transferred to your rotor if you change brake pads. The best way is to remove the rotors from the wheel, get an air drill and those 3M burnish pads (they're red in color, can't remember the name) and burnish until they're shiny again.

BTW...I like the Vesrah's, but I haven't tried a lot of different brands recently. I like the life of the pad, initial grip and how it feels trailing into a corner. What I don't like is the mushy lever of Suzuki brakes at the mid-point of a race! A Brembo cylinder helps some, but it doesn't totally fix it.

[flyingbutterknife]

I ran EBC for years and never truelly liked em,Dorn got me to switch to the Vesrah SRJL and I was blown away by them. I will be trying the RJL this year(lesser model to the SRJL but cheaper) and the stock Suzuki pads but for now I am a SRJL racer......they last me around three weekends a set. VESRAH ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!! for now.......

[Ed Who?]

Don't forget to check your rotor thickness. The most basic metric of performance for a brake system is mass of the rotor. Mass = heat dissipation. If your rotors are worn, replace them!!! Also, it's important to remove the old brake pad material which was transferred to your rotor if you change brake pads. The best way is to remove the rotors from the wheel, get an air drill and those 3M burnish pads (they're red in color, can't remember the name) and burnish until they're shiny again.

BTW...I like the Vesrah's, but I haven't tried a lot of different brands recently. I like the life of the pad, initial grip and how it feels trailing into a corner. What I don't like is the mushy lever of Suzuki brakes at the mid-point of a race! A Brembo cylinder helps some, but it doesn't totally fix it.

1. well put! Thats why Brembo Rotors work so damn well! they are not the lightest but when talking with them they explained that the "mass" of them and type of s/s they use takes a ton more heat than the others...made sense to me.

2. IMO honestly the best way to clean rotors is the BEAD blast them. Works amazing!!!

3. Its the calipers. Feel a stock GSXR with a set of R1/R6 mono block calipers..stunning! lines help, rotors help, master helps, but the calipers are pure crap!

[beer gut racing]

1. well put! Thats why Brembo Rotors work so damn well! they are not the lightest but when talking with them they explained that the "mass" of them and type of s/s they use takes a ton more heat than the others...made sense to me.

2. IMO honestly the best way to clean rotors is the BEAD blast them. Works amazing!!!

3. Its the calipers. Feel a stock GSXR with a set of R1/R6 mono block calipers..stunning! lines help, rotors help, master helps, but the calipers are pure crap!


Good to know about the bead blasting and mono block calipers, thanks.

When you wrote s/s, did you mean stainless steel? I'd be surprised if they were stainless, most grades of stainless are very poor conductors of heat. In fact, at work we use a stainless steel spacer as a way of slowing the heat transfer from our rotors to to the aluminum hub (I design wheel hubs and brakes for heavy truck). Most rotors are cast iron because it has a graphite shaped microstructure and conducts heat VERY well. The strength is much lower than steel (more carbon than cast iron), but strength isn't as important in brake rotor design.

There's several different forms of cast iron depending on alloying and innoculents that form different microstructures. Gray iron and ductile iron are the most common. Gray iron is actually what most rotors and drums are made of. Ductile iron is more of a structural iron. Most rotors aren't heat treated, just raw-cast...although they do control the time in the mold, which in a way is heat treating and changes the microstructure.

[beer gut racing]

Disclaimer: most of my rotor "knowledge" applies to heavy truck, so I could be totally wrong when it comes to bikes.

[sanfret]

Disclaimer: most of my rotor "knowledge" applies to heavy truck

qualifies for hondas then... anyone know about the rest of the bikes?

[flyingbutterknife]

qualifies for hondas then... anyone know about the rest of the bikes?

It is illegal in this country to talk about Hondas like that.....$10,000.00 fine and 10 years in prison,last I heard.

[sanfret]

I think you have America confused with SuperbikePlanet.com .. see here in America and in Roadracing World the truth is spoken.

(side note: I have more hondas now then any other bike, but i still bleed green)

[Ed Who?]

Good to know about the bead blasting and mono block calipers, thanks.

When you wrote s/s, did you mean stainless steel? I'd be surprised if they were stainless, most grades of stainless are very poor conductors of heat. In fact, at work we use a stainless steel spacer as a way of slowing the heat transfer from our rotors to to the aluminum hub (I design wheel hubs and brakes for heavy truck). Most rotors are cast iron because it has a graphite shaped microstructure and conducts heat VERY well. The strength is much lower than steel (more carbon than cast iron), but strength isn't as important in brake rotor design.

There's several different forms of cast iron depending on alloying and innoculents that form different microstructures. Gray iron and ductile iron are the most common. Gray iron is actually what most rotors and drums are made of. Ductile iron is more of a structural iron. Most rotors aren't heat treated, just raw-cast...although they do control the time in the mold, which in a way is heat treating and changes the microstructure.


Yes i meant Stainless. HOnestly dan thats what they use. VERY VERY rare to see a ductile iron or such rotor nowadays. Here is the wording from brembo, italy

""

Brake discs



All Brembo brake discs are made from stainless steel alloys produced specifically for use on braking systems.



The experience matured in years of applications has allowed defining the most correct geometries, tolerances and dimensions for both the typologies in use: braking surfaces and complete floating discs.

This leads to excellent resistance to stress and high duration together with a contained weight and great efficiency even in rainy conditions.



The braking surfaces are also available as a fixed disc or, with the interposition of drive elements, as a floating disc to all effects.

The diameters available vary from 155 mm to 320mm, suitable to meet a wide range of applications both for front and rear brakes, from the scooter to the super sporting road model.""

[Justin Watkins]

ferodo is the only one I know making a ductile iron rotor and after 1-2 seasons you have to throw them out. If you use them much more than that, they tend to become brittle and start getting cracks. My 1st year racing, 2000, I seen a rotor explode that had be raced on for 4 or so years, he hit the brakes and bang it blew off the wheel, crazy stuff.

I had a set for a while in 2001/2002, they rust like a mother F@#$@#r in the rain!! :-)

[beer gut racing]

I stand corrected! I'll stick with heavy truck and leave bikes to the experts :new:

[beer gut racing]

Makes sense now that I think of it. Considering the relatively small size of the rotor and the large forces involved in high-performance stopping of sportbikes, a cast iron rotor (low strength) wouldn't do the job. There are several grades of S/S, some of which are better conductors and not as hard.

[Barry Wressell]

When I ran the PF brake pads, mine lasted a long time. I only bought 2 sets per bike all season. Maybe different rotors might have something to do with that, I was using stock R6 rotors. I tried several compounds out, the 95 compound had less bite than the 99 compound, but liked the 99 better. I would like to try the Loraine brake pads out, since they are carbon, along with the SBS DC. Might do a product test?

[AdamBowen]

I have used EBC and was not satisfied. Barry hooked me up with some PF's and they were absolutely awesome. I have also used Vesrah and have been very pleased with those as well.

[flyingbutterknife]

I stand corrected! I'll stick with heavy truck and leave bikes to the experts :new:

Jees Dan, quite pretending like your a heavily educated engineer.......oh shit,you are.......my bad!

[mpp12]

R1 calipers are monoblock and lighter than the gsxr1000 ones.

[Ed Who?]

yep. thats what we put on a ton of them on trackday and street guys...even a few superbikes (check out the EDR 2007 and 2008 Calendar..2007 we did a 2005GSXR600superbike and in the 2008 Calendar is a2006 GSXR1000 superbike with them)

Best $50 you can spend on a GSXR!!

[beer gut racing]

yep. thats what we put on a ton of them on trackday and street guys...even a few superbikes (check out the EDR 2007 and 2008 Calendar..2007 we did a 2005GSXR600superbike and in the 2008 Calendar is a2006 GSXR1000 superbike with them)

Best $50 you can spend on a GSXR!!

supersport rules suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When I'm old and gray and don't care about contingency, sponsorship and rules...I'm gonna have Eric build me the biggest, baddest, rule-breakin mother fucking superbike ever !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[flyingbutterknife]

supersport rules suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When I'm old and gray and don't care about contingency, sponsorship and rules...I'm gonna have Eric build me the biggest, baddest, rule-breakin mother fucking superbike ever !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So your going to build one tommorrow?

[Ed Who?]

so beer gut....borrow DPW's... actually DPW's only got the bad ass motor and talent...stock chassis/brake stuff (well we got him a xmas gift for brakes)

the ol' R1 Big Stick..now that was nasty!!

[Hypnotiq]

yeah the gix calipers blow. I put the R6/R1 ones on my bike for a trackday and it was hard to put the stock ones back on. Absolutely amazing in the difference. :(

[Chris_Mag]

ferodo is the only one I know making a ductile iron rotor and after 1-2 seasons you have to throw them out. If you use them much more than that, they tend to become brittle and start getting cracks. My 1st year racing, 2000, I seen a rotor explode that had be raced on for 4 or so years, he hit the brakes and bang it blew off the wheel, crazy stuff.

I had a set for a while in 2001/2002, they rust like a mother F@#$@#r in the rain!! :-)

My 92' GSXR750 had cast iron EBC Prolites/HH Pads on it... I know what you mean about rust. They worked really well though. Good feel and never had them fade significantly.

[CoachVino]

I dig the Vesrah RJL's (coming from a street/trackday guy), they def. have way better feel than the EBC's i had used for a season, and way better than the stockers on my 01'. However,,, At first, I wasnt sure how they would feel though cuz the RJL's seemed like they didnt bite much when puttin around the parking lot (PIR), but man was I mistaken once I put them to the test at T-1! Those things are perfect for a street/trackday rider! Sooo much stopping power, really progressive, "controllable" initial bite. Now,,, I may have to put some R6 calipers on the new bike since everyone is trashing on the stock gix calipers... what do you think Eric? I havent even ridden it yet and by the time im done,,, Ill never know what a stock 06 750 feels like!
-Vino-